The anti-feminist politics behind porn that 'empowers' women

[MaggieH]

"The anti-feminist politics behind the pornography that “empowers” women

Friday, 25 January 2008
by Gail Dines and Robert Jensen

http://www.atlanticfreepress .com/content/view/3305/81/

Pornography’s supporters often claim that critics don’t pay enough attention to the wide range of sexually explicit images available today, especially the material that is said to be empowering for women.

But after a few minutes on the floor of the sex-saturated Adult Entertainment Expo, the pornographers’ annual trade show in Las Vegas, such pro-pornography claims start to seem pretty silly.

The 2008 AEE drove home the reality that while there are indeed differences in the level of overt woman-hating in the pornography for sale in the United States, that industry is at its core about (1) the control of women (2) to facilitate the presentation of women (3) for male consumption (4) in the pursuit of profit. Our interaction with the makers of the latest popular example of “female-centered” pornography provided a first-hand reminder that the industry’s hallowed commitment to free speech and feminist empowerment is more public-relations posturing than principled positions.

The company making one of the biggest splashes on the convention floor this year was Abbywinters.com, an Australian website that bills itself as offering “real, passionate, unscripted” sexual activity by “happy, healthy, regular girls in their normal environments.” The company markets its female masturbation and girl/girl videos as “an endless bounty of gasping sex, stunning beauty and friendly faces” featuring women with “no makeup, no fake boobs, no airbrushing.”

Call it the down-under girl-next-door market niche.

Of course not all pornography consumers are interested in the softer-edged material that Abbywinters.com sells, but it’s popular enough that the company signed a distribution deal with Wicked Pictures, one of the top production companies in the United States, according to an industry insider working for Abbywinters.com. And based on the size of the crowds that the Abbywinters.com booth was drawing, this market niche appears to be holding its own.

At the booth, Abbywinters.com “girls” (in porno-speak, there are no women; females of any age are called girls) were chatting amiably with the fans (even playing chess with some of them, to show that the girls are smart as well as sexy) and being openly affectionate with each other. Instead of the caricatured porn star look (impossibly high heels, over-the-top makeup, and surgically enhanced bodies), these women really did look like ordinary people.

In interviews with several of them, a familiar story of empowerment emerged — we are comfortable with our bodies, confident in our sexuality, proud to be taking control of how we are represented, etc. We responded with questions that reflected our feminist critique of pornography, which sparked interesting responses regarding their feelings about their work and our assessment of the industry. We asked the women to explain how the interests of women (or men, for that matter) were advanced by selling images mostly used by men as a masturbation facilitator. How did that improve the lot of women in the world? Each of the conversations ended with an agree-to-disagree parting, and we went off to other parts of the convention.

The next day, when Jensen was back on the convention floor and had just interviewed another female performer at the Abbywinters.com booth, he was taken aside by the website’s photographer (who wouldn’t give her name) and told that because the conversations of the previous day had upset the women by bringing up a feminist critique, they preferred that we stop talking to the women. “These are smart women who’ve made a decision to perform, and we’d like you to respect that,” she said. Jensen responded that it was precisely because we respected these women and viewed them as intelligent adults capable of making choices that we had engaged them in a serious, respectful way during our interviews. What could be wrong with that?

The photographer responded that it was just this kind of “intellectual sparring” that they wanted to avoid. Why are questions that reflect a critical viewpoint a threat, Jensen asked? Was it because this convention was about making money, not talking about bigger issues about power, especially with a feminist analysis behind the questions? The photographer did not argue, acknowledging that the main market for the website and films was men who used the images for “wanking.” But she was firm in her position, and we agreed to not approach any of the Abbywinters.com women/girls for additional interviews.

Free speech, it appears, is all well and good when it protects the profits of pornographers, but not when it includes a challenge to the claims pornographers make.

Of course on private property, such as the convention center, legal guarantees of free speech don’t apply; we understood that we had to follow the rules of the people running the show. But the rules those people imposed reveals much about the real agenda, as did the behavior of the men watching. And, in the end, it is really about what the men watching want.

A few hours after we were banned from interviewing the girls it was show time at the Abbywinters.com booth, with four female couples kissing and caressing for the overwhelmingly male audience. In that moment the connection between these Australian women and the rest of the AEE convention was clear. Just as at the other companies on the floor, men with all varieties of cameras and cell phones ringed the booth, vying for the best angles to record images of women being sexual. The Abbywinters.com women looked different from the porn-star caricature, but their girl/girl action (the industry’s term for lesbian sex presented for a male audience) didn’t look much different from the industry norm, and the men who were watching behaved the same as other fans on the convention floor.

That moment provides an important reminder: Pornography, at its core, is a market transaction in which women’s bodies and sexuality are offered to male consumers in the interests of maximizing profit. Market niches vary, but the bottom line does not. In the end, it’s about attracting the most “wankers” possible. Some of those men who wank to these images like porn-star caricatures. Some like the girl next door.

A man watching the Abbywinters.com sex display said that he loved the site for a simple reason: “No fake tits and more pubic hair.” A man who had just gotten a signed photo from a performer at the Hustler booth said he loved porn women for a simple reason: “They are like a fucking sculpture.” The slightly different preferences were trivial; more important was the fact that both men had bags full of pictures and DVDs that would mostly likely be wanking material that evening.

The Abbywinters.com booth, with its more female-friendly sexual activity, existed alongside the booths of other pornographers selling an overtly woman-hating sex, and it’s easy to tell the difference. Films that present ordinary women kissing are different from films that offer exaggerated porn stars being penetrated by three men at once. Films of women holding each other gently after sex are different from films of men ejaculating on a woman’s face. We have no doubt that the women performing for Abbywinters.com videos work under better conditions than much of the rest of the industry. But in the end, pornography is in the business of presenting women’s bodies to men for masturbation.

The many different women who engage in sex in front of a camera make that choice to be used in pornography under a wide range of psychological, social and economic conditions. The choices women make to reduce themselves to sexual objects for men’s masturbation are complex, and we should be cautious about generalizations and judgments.

The men who make up the vast majority of the industry’s customers also make choices, about which kind of objectified women are most sexually stimulating to them. Such choices that men make are considerably simpler, and generalizations are easier to make. Political judgments also are not only possible but necessary — if we are to resist male supremacy, reject the subordination of women in all its forms, and replace that corrosive conception of gender and sex with a vision of human integrity and community that can be the basis for a just and sustainable society."

[bluecoat28]

gail and robert are great. yeah, I agree that abbywinters-type-shit is popular today. pseudo-lesbian sex is what it is... and even if they ARE lesbian or bisexual etc, it doesn't matter. It doesn't justify that business. That's really interesting how the woman didn't want gail n robert to speak anymore to the "girls". That really says something.

[pisaquari]

The anti-feminist politics behind porn that 'empowers' women

= Quick! Invent some BS niche market to get all these damn feminazi's who won't quit running their mouths on the internets to shup up!

=hush money

=same ole shit

=no thanks!

[buggle]

Ha, they just didn't want Gail and Robert to put any feminist ideas into these women's heads! Scared to lose their precious commodities. Barf!

[elfeminista]

Great post maggie.
I have a rotten cold/flu today, but I keep trying to find out where all these pro-porn feminists are, with little success. i know a few 'pro porn feminist Women' but that is what they are, a few. also my friends don't like porn as a rule, but that could be because I do not tolerate pro porners very well.
Still, from the depths of this cold, I still wonder if perhaps the amount of pro porn feminist Women' are not exagerated. To me porn = men, and " pro porn feminist women" are women who are trying to make compromises while knowing the real deal inside. i don't know what all these gender studies/women studies school graduates who perenially advocate for pro porn are coming from, but my suspicion is that its "surrender".

[buggle]

In answer to your question about where are the pro-porn feminists, they are everywhere! Try Feministe, Feministing, Pandagon, or the BUST lounge. Most of them are against the "bad porn" but are fine with the rest of it- ya know, the stuff that is empowerfulizing for women. There are a LOT of them. When it comes down to it, most will not or can not say that they are against porn. They have to make exceptions for the "feminist porn" or "women-friendly" porn. And even if it's not "feminist" porn, they will yell at you if you challenge them, because we all know that feminism is about "doing whatever I want and having a free choice" and if you challenge them they will tell you you are the feminist police and how can you call them a bad feminist????? (Even when you say nothing like that). They are very strong, and very vocal. They have a LOT of support. I have gotten in trouble on websites for suggesting that ALL porn is degrading/oppressive, etc. Feminists FLIP OUT! Oh, but not the porn I watch!! Not the porn MY boyfriend watches! I mean, yeah, that mainstream stuff is bad, but it's not ALL bad. And besides, these women have chosen to be in porn, so who are we to judge?

Yes, I'm angry, and cynical. I know it's hard, as a woman, to really take a stand. I get that, I really do. But sheeesh! All these pro-porn feminists just do NOT GET IT!!! And they make me feel insane, like I'm so awful and judgmental.

I think a lot of it is younger women, too. Not to be all ageist, I'm 31, but I see a LOT of women in their 20's who just can't/won't speak out against porn. Or BDSM or a bunch of other stuff. It's become so normalized, and even trendy and "cool." I know it took a lot for me to finally say NO to porn, and I hated it for my whole life. I've always felt this way, I just never knew I was allowed to feel that way! But, it did require me to push through my own denial, and that was intensely painful. I had to risk my relationship with my boyfriend, and most people aren't ready to do that. It took me 3 years!

[bluecoat28]

I think a lot of it is younger women, too. Not to be all ageist, I'm 31, but I see a LOT of women in their 20's who just can't/won't speak out against porn.

You're not being ageist by making this observation. Isn't ageism more about discrimination against older people anyway, just as sexism is towards women NOT men? "men's rights activists" claim some women are sexist towards men, but they're just messing with the true purpose of the word.

[laurelin]

think a lot of it is younger women, too. Not to be all ageist, I'm 31, but I see a LOT of women in their 20's who just can't/won't speak out against porn.

That doesn't strike me as ageist at all (I'm 27, if that helps). Most of the feminists I know who are around my age or younger seem to be reluctant to take a stand against porn (witness the number of feminist bloggers abandoning radical feminist politics!). People who know me from my blog tend to expect me to be older than I am, and are surprised when they meet me.

[MaggieH]

I'm 27

So am I!

[Andrew]

I know guys look at this "girl-on-girl' stuff ( 18 and older of course), but do ANY real lesbians look at any of it? Not that it makes any difference to my view, but worth considering.

[bluecoat28]

I know guys look at this "girl-on-girl' stuff ( 18 and older of course), but do ANY real lesbians look at any of it? Not that it makes any difference to my view, but worth considering.

Yes, I'm sure some "real" lesbians look at pseudo-lesbian porn, but once lesbians are exposed to antiporn critique, I hope they swing in the direction of: this is making a joke out of lesbian sexuality/ it's a hetero-male creation

[Andrew]

If they grasp that, they're grasping right.

[RGM]

Dines and Jensen rock. They provide the answers to my other musings about differentiating between types of pornography: ultimately, it's all about whether or not men will "wank" to it, and inevitably, they do.

[oneangrygirl]

sadly, pro-porn feminists have become the public norm.
i don't have any numbers, but they are certainly well-represented on the internet.
i had a woman write me an email saying that she was surprised to find that antiporn feminists existed...she believed that feminist = pro-porn.

anyway, during my new etsy obsession i did a search for the tag "feminist" and found this http://www. etsy.com/ view_listing.php?listing_id=8362939
had a short conversation with the creator about why s/he tagged it feminist. s/he claimed it was about "reclaiming" words a la bikini kill or something. i told her that didn't work to promote the original goals of feminism. no response.

[fullhumanity]

There is not and *NEVER* was any such thing as pro-porn "feminists" this is a total oxymoron,totally messed up and a a total falsehood! What are these fake "feminist" hypocrite traders calling "feminist" porn?

The standard fare typical pornography that as brilliant anti-sexist,anti-violence anti-porn eductor John Stoltenberg accurately describes in transcribed speaches from the 1980's in his acclaimed book,Refusing To Be A Man:Essays On Sex and Justice,that as he explains sexualizes male supremacy,male dominance and women's subordination and submission to men, dehumanizing women,male violence against women and woman hatred and makes this all seem and feel like sex! Not to mention the typical ejaculating on women's faces and bodies and mouths after men are finished using their f*ckholes?! Is this what they hypocritically call "feminist"? This is just insane!

As I said before the great anti-porn educator professor Rebecca Whisnant and Anne Simonton of Media Watch said that they don't believe women really like pornography and that they are buying into it for male acceptance and approval and Rebecca said if you can't beat them join them! In order for women to survive in the patriarchy it certainly is very important for women living under male supremacy to get approval and acceptance from men both from the male dominated society in general and their male partners!

In the Fall of 2003 I wrote to award winning anti-violence anti-pornography educator and writer sociology professor Dr.Diana Russell about my concerns about a radio talk show I heard where the woman host said there was an article that claimed because there has been a real increased acceptance of pornography in our society more women are using it now. She said that women like the soft-core pornography and men like the hard-core much more. Disturbingly there were quite a few women calling up and claiming to like to watch pornography. And of course there was *no* mention at all about the real issues of sexism,woman-hating,and harm!

Dr.Russell, as I'm sure you know has written a lot about research that shows there is a connection with pornography and rape,wrote me back a supportive email,and she said just because an article and a radio show is claiming that more women are using pornography doesn't make it true. She said there is a lot of research studies that shows that most women are upset by it(and for damn great reasons too!) and she said it's still mostly men who use and like it. But she ended the email saying,my concerns are right on!!

Also former all star high school football player and acclaimed leading anti-sexist,anti-porn, anti-male violence, educator Jackson Katz said to me in a January 2004 email that he thinks that some women including some women calling themselves "feminists" are claiming to like pornography out of a misguided attempt to be appear "liberated" and he put it in quotes like this because we know it's really insane that it's far from liberation,and he said or pro-sex and to get approval from men. But he said there are a lot of people out there including many men who are educating about the truth about pornography!

And I also read a post from a woman on a message board somewhere and she said that Christine Stark in the important book,Not For Sale:Feminists Resisting Prostitution and Pornography demonstrates in a chapter that so-called "feminist" porn is really no different and that it is just as sexist and degrading as the typical popular pornography.

[fullhumanity]

Go back to previous topic

Forum Name Women's Rights

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... x6696#6812

6812, Since you

Posted by gaspee on Sat Mar-31-07 08:28 AM

-- (warning for frank language.)

Seem to think only people who have seen a lot of porn are qualified to speak, I might meet your qualifications. I've watched a lot of porn. I used to have no problem with porn. I *write* erotica for a few online magazines. A few years ago, I got so ed by het porn that I've never watched it again. I will watch gay porn, either m/m or made for *women* f/f. I won't watch made for men f/f.

porn is degrading to women. Period. Mainstream porn, especailly. I've watched a lot of it over the years. I'm no spring chicken. I don't have a problem watching m/m porn. Funny, that. Know why? because I don't take it personally when men are treated like a f*ck hole. Hmmm... I think I'm onto why most men don't have a problem watching women turned into nothing but a place to stick their d*ck.

When watching for what passes as mainstream porn these days, I get sick to my stomach. Anal, face fucking to the point where the poor girl is next to vomiting, slapping, demeaning talk. it's all there in mainstream porn. Why men are so turned on by anal in het porn has always been a mystery to me. Why women do it is another mystery. I can get why men have anal sex. Women do it because men want them to.

What makes me the most sick is the look in the girls', oh sorry, *actresses*, eyes. It f*cking kills me these days, which is why I don't watch het porn any more.

And I'm speaking as someone who has seen a lot of it.

Now put on some Bel Ami stuff and my girlfriend and I are quite happy. Why? Watch it sometime, then watch the current top five or ten selling het porn titles and I think you'll see the difference. And if you don't, that's a little scary.

And to continually say that het porn "isn't like that" and looking at the top selling and rented titles makes me think you are being disingenious or in plain old denial.

Because the most popular het porn is like that.

And someone doesn't have to watch a lot of porn to see just how degrading to women it is. One or two mainstream het movies should do that pretty darn quick.

[fullhumanity]

Go back to previous topic

Forum Name Women's Rights

Topic subject Hmmm, no response to your post. Wonder why?

Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... x6696#6835
6835,
Posted by Morgana LaFey on Wed Apr-04-07 10:14 PM

And someone doesn't have to watch a lot of porn to see just how degrading to women it is.

Yup.

and:

I don't have a problem watching m/m porn. Funny, that. Know why? because I don't take it personally when men are treated like a fuck hole. Hmmm... I think I'm onto why most men don't have a problem watching women turned into nothing but a place to stick their dick.'

Especially when they've been taught and continously reassured that women LIKE that, or if they don't something's wrong with them.

[fullhumanity]

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Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity



September 13 2007


This book by Robert Jensen is one of those books that are difficult to describe, you simply have to read it. But since that would be much too easy as a review comment, I will attempt to articulate how I understand the book's message.

As a White, heterosexual man living in the US I could related to much of what Jensen had to say, both about his own personal struggles with pornography and the fact that pornography as an industry has moved from the margins of society and become quite mainstream. Another aspect of Jensen's book that is very important is his insistence on not just critiquing pornography, but male consumption of pornography and how that influences men and our ability, or inability, to have healthy relationships with women.

The author begins the book by discussing how he understands both masculinity and a working definition of pornography. With masculinity Jensen tries to look at how men are socialized to embrace behaviors and attitudes of domination and control. Men are taught from and very early age that to be masculine means to be in control and always assume that what we do is more important than what women do. This notion of superiority is not only taught, it is nurtured and rewarded by other men, social institutions, and in cultural entities like entertainment media.

Jensen then tried to present a much more comprehensive explanation of what pornography is. Many people in debating pornography want to discuss it as a free speech issue or as just another form of eroticism. Jensen looks at pornography through a feminist lens and presents it as a form of men's cruelty towards women and how men often derive pleasure from this cruelty. To support this argument Jensen critiques the current and most popular videos and websites that men consume. His critique of these videos and websites has three areas of research: textual analysis - what is the ideology conveyed by the product; the political economy - the production, financing and profiting of pornography: and reception studies - how do people use the product and what effect does it have on their lives?

At some level Jensen should be saluted for engaging in the difficult task of having to look at all this pornography and provide some analysis, so that the rest of us don't have to do it. One important aspect of what the author points out is that the evolution of pornography and how it is produced and consumed will ultimately lead to more violent and degrading forms. This is one of the consequences of living in the digital age. With the Internet, both images and streamed video provide the pornography industry the capacity to provide consumers of pornography and endless stream of images of women being degraded by men. Media researchers have argued for years that the constant exposure to images and messages of violence has serious consequences, such as the normalizing of violence, which means that seeing people murdered, brutalized, even decapitated is no big deal.


This normalizing of increasingly graphic violence has meant that consumers of media violence are willing to look at even more graphic depictions of murder and rape. The evolution of pornography is doing the same thing according to Jensen, with more stark representation of sexualized violence. This is an important aspect of the research that Jensen conducted because he did not select "movies from the sadomasochism or bondage categories, or from fringe sub-genres such as urination or defecation movies." He chose material that is seen as "mainstream" in the pornography world.

In addition to the author's critique of the most popular, mainstream pornography, he cites firsthand sources, both producers and those who "perform" in the films. He quotes porn director Jules Jordan as saying:



"One of the things about today's porn and the extreme market, so many fans want to see so much more extreme stuff that I'm always trying to figure out ways to do something differently. But it seems everybody wants to see a girl doing double penetration now or a gang-bang. For certain girls, that's great, and I like to see that for certain people, but a lot of fans are becoming a lot more demanding about wanting to see the more extreme stuff. It's definitely brought porn somewhere, but I don't know where it's headed from there."



Even those in the industry acknowledge the extreme nature of the production and reflect some sense of confusion about where it all leads.
There are plenty of examples from the pornography Jensen looked at in his study that he references in the book, but his emphasis is primarily on trying to understand the men who consume pornography. The author argues that since men who consume pornography have no frame of reference, no contextual understanding of the production of pornography, they assume that what is happening to women in pornography is what they want. Consumers of pornography are likely to believe that women want violent sex, want multiple partners at the same time, and want to be dominated and degraded. This unfortunately is how more and more men view "sex" and the role of women in their lives. When women challenge or won't conform to the role that pornography presents them, they are seen as cold or as "bitches."


So how do men overcome these dynamics and how do we all come to terms with the power of pornography in our lives. Jensen says that some people, particularly those who take a moralist approach to pornography advocate that it is not "manly to consume pornography." We see this notion coming from the Christian community and groups like the Promise Keepers. What Jensen argues is significantly different. Jensen believes that the task of men is to try to be more human. "Our goal should not be to redefine masculinity, but to abolish it. Attempts to identify and valorize alternative masculine traits add to, rather than detract from, men's capacity to move away from a position of domination." This is a similar position taken by John Stoltenberg in his book Refusing to Be a Man: Essays on Sex and Justice. While some men may not agree with Jensen's conclusion about masculinity, they will have a difficult time defending the production and consumption of pornography if they dare to pick this book up and read it.


Robert Jensen, Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity, (South End Press, 2007).

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[fullhumanity]

I have a serious question for all of you, if any black people called themselves civil rights activists and supporters and they said they were pro-racist pornography would you consider them true civil rights activists and supporters?

And also it's not only mindboggling for any woman especially even more who hypocritically call themselves "feminists" to support pornography but they are actually confusing other women who end up supporting it because thet see women who hypocritically call themselves "feminists" and then support pornography too,so it's actually recruiting more women like this!

And they are also helping to justify and legitimize to men their sexist male supremacy attitudes they are taught from pornography and the patriarchal culture at large,and validating men's use of pornography and the sexist dehumanizing ways it treats and portays women! Men can deny even further that pornography is etremely sexist,woman hating and harmful because they can say,look even women who call themselves "feminists" are pro-porn! It's totally messed up,terrible and unreal!

[fullhumanity]

I need to also add that these fake "feminist" hypocrite traders are also supporting an industry and it's images that have been involved in many women and children's sexual abuse and sexual harassment of women on the job and discrimination against women and women's inferior status in general in the patriarchy!