Moving Violations

[oneangrygirl]

Moving Violations
By DEBORAH TANNEN
July 1, 2006, New York Times

RECENTLY, the New York City police arrested 13 men, saying they had groped or flashed women on the subway. Reading the press reports that followed, in which many women told of similar assaults, I was reminded of one of the first academic papers I published - an analysis of how Greek women talked about just such experiences.

I was also reminded of my own experience on the New York subway.

I was 15 and in my first year at Hunter College High School. Taking my usual route to school, I was riding a crowded express train to Manhattan from Cortelyou Road in Brooklyn. At the center of a crush of people holding onto a pole, I became aware - I thought - that my leather purse, which was hanging from my arm, had gotten jammed between my legs. I moved my arm to dislodge it and discovered, to my horror, that the purse moved, but the pressure remained. I stood frozen in fear. When the train pulled into the Prospect Park station, the pressure finally disappeared, and I saw a man in a suit look back at me as he stepped onto the platform.

That was the last time I took an express train to school. Instead I added a half-hour to my commute in order to catch the local, get a seat and keep it all the way to Manhattan. And forever after, I got a queasy feeling when the doors opened at the Prospect Park station. I think I expected that man to get back on.

This memory eventually receded, like the man through the subway doors. But it resurfaced 15 years later when, as a member of a team investigating how people talk about personal experiences, I asked New Yorkers if they'd had any memorable experiences on the subway. Indeed they had. And most of the stories I heard from women were about being groped, flashed, rubbed against or otherwise molested by men.

Around the same time, I spent eight months doing research in Athens, so I decided to record Greek women recounting narratives I could compare to the New Yorkers'. Since most of the subway stories were actually molesting stories, I asked Greek women if they'd ever been molested.

The experiences the Greek women described were similar to those I'd heard from Americans. But there was a difference. Most of the American women - like those recently interviewed in the New York news media - told me they had felt humiliated and helpless and had done or said nothing. Of the 25 stories Greek women told me, only eight concluded with the speaker doing nothing. In the others, she said she had yelled, struck back or both.

One Greek woman told of walking to school with a friend when they were 12 years old, and encountering a man who exposed himself. Their reaction? "We grabbed some rocks and started aiming at his head. ... How we didn't kill him I don't know. We started to scream out loud." Another said: "I have given smacks. I have given a punch to a sailor. I have given kicks."

She went on to say that when she traveled she kept a rock in her pocket for protection, and she described how she used it on a repulsive man who had been dogging her and a friend on vacation in Venice.

Though my research focused on how the women talked (the Greek women were vivid story-tellers, using the present tense and setting dramatic scenes with dialogues and details), I can't help pondering the differing actions the two groups of women described. Surely some general cultural patterns are at play.

For one thing, most Greeks, like their Mediterranean neighbors, place value on expressiveness, whereas American culture is influenced by the Northern European and British emphasis on public decorum. That's why Americans often mistake animated Greek conversation for argument. Another cultural difference is how readily strangers get involved in others' interactions. I once saw two men arguing on an Athens street; when one raised his hand to strike, he was immediately restrained by a passer-by.

This incident may help explain another Greek woman's account of a strange man who followed her and then approached with unwanted advances. She told me: "I yelled and I gave him a strong smack. He had become so enraged that he jumped at me and he wanted to hit me," but a man who happened to be standing close by "intervened and cursed him and he left." Would she have risked enraging a stranger if she were less confident that another stranger would leap to her aid?

Whatever the reasons for them, the different ways of responding to public molestation led to different emotional reactions. Though many of the Greek women reported feeling anger and fear, they didn't talk about feeling helpless, as many American women did, and as I recall feeling when it happened to me. Equally dreadful was the sense of isolation: though you're in a crowd, something is happening only to you, and no one else knows.

Speaking out dispels that isolation, as well as the sense of shame that it reflects and reinforces. Knowing that she had acted allowed at least one of my Greek storytellers to transform a potentially traumatic experience into bonding through shared laughter. The rock-wielder said that after the Venetian pest had fled, her friend "was dying of laughter, rolling on the floor," and then "the laughter grabbed me too" and they were both "laughing about how we had thrown him out willy-nilly."
Deborah Tannen is a professor of linguistics at Georgetown University and the author, most recently, of "You're Wearing That? Understanding Mothers and Daughters in Conversation."

[Army Of Me]

oag that's a fascinating article. It is true about the differing reactions within the context of the culture.

Sorry, this turned into an essay.

I grew up in a southern state where everyone is very friendly and a stranger will say hello passing in the street, and wouldn't hesitate to help someone. (These days, this may have changed somewhat, as people are generally more wary, and the state in question has a gun-carrying culture where anyone could be "packin".) But compared to the more British-influenced culture of the east coast, and New York city is a law unto itself, (I have visited NY a few times and had a sister who lived there for many years), I think the people of the south are more friendly and approachable.

Apparently, if you ask people in the states (my sister, having experienced living both in the south and in NY, could never quite come to terms with the "coldness" if that's the right word, of the NY culture), who have experienced both places, I think they would say the same.

But she and I both agreed that compared to NY, the Brits win hands down in the "public decorum" department. Also, over here, the opposite is true to the states, the further north you go, the more friendly the people are (so the northerners say and is generally true), but still, by southern American standards, probably still quite stand-offish. Sheesh this is getting a bit confusing.

It seems though that the more crowded a place becomes, the more alone you can sometimes feel - everyone is valuing their little bit of personal space. But again, this is in the context of the surrounding culture.

You only have to get on a crowded train here, or the tube, and no one makes eye-contact. I found that quite strange when first living here, and no one says hello on the street, it was quite a culture shock, but after awhile, you see that the Brits have quite a droll sense of humour, and you just start taking people as they are, and aclimatise to the "rules". Most Brits, if you start a conversation, will be quite friendly, but they do give off an air of snobbishness, which is really also to do with respecting other's privacy, also a bit of social shyness, (probably the same reasons for the decorum in NY city) and again, it's just not done - why this has come about, I don't know. I'm used to it now, but I felt for some time that my personality was a bit stifled. I don't really think about it now - sorry, this is turning into a narrative about me - it's just my perspective.

Also, as with NY city, over here, London is a law unto itself too. You only have to travel just outside London, and it's different, not so "buzzy" or frantic, and not so "cold". But again, if someone from a southern state or the west coast came over for the first time, and stayed just outside London, by comparison, they would probably think the people typical stereotypically British.

But I love London - there is are all sorts of ethnicities, and like any big city, has it's bad side, but generally, considering how packed it is, it's a great place.

In the last few years I've noticed it's becoming a bit more "Americanised" here too, what with all the vastly increased exposure to America's culture via tv and internet, also people are more well-travelled.

I am getting side-tracked - sorry but this fascinates me.

But I've never been groped in a train, I've had verbal crap from them occasionally, and either tell them to"eff off", or ignore. But that's where my southern states upbringing comes in, and if I'd been brought up here, I would probably do what most women would do (I'm not talking about a drunken night out), and just pretend the guy was invisible, and that I was deaf.

If I was assaulted on train, I would def make a fuss.

I have been to Greece to and other places in the Med - and they are much more expressive yes. I have another theory, that the colder the climate, this shapes the way people act - huddled into themselves, walking fast to stay warm, talking fast, and in the case of the brits, making them seem a bit miserable.

We just had one of the coldest winters for years, people had the heating on well into May, I couldn't afford to heat my place cuz by coincidence, the cost of gas and electricity has doubled in recent years, and now we're having a heat wave (hurray!) and the media are whining about it. I can sit and type without my fingers freezing, and it's really nice being warm all over, including hands and feet, and not have to put layers of clothes on. In the winter, people complain about how cold it is and how they wish summer would come, and when it comes, it's too hot! Sometimes there is no summmer at all - not knowing every year if spring, never mind summer, is coming, drives me mad -it's cuz of where I grew up - the weather is not consistent, and it's not healthy. My theory is that when the Brits are complaining about the weather, the are just using that topic as a conversation-starter to make small talk - don't know.

When the Brits go on holiday to hot climates in Euruope or the Med, they just let rip - it's the heat that makes them more relaxed, they also are reacting to the more relaxed surrounding culture, and of course we cannot leave out the alcohol factor, which is generally much cheaper in Med countries and places like Spain and France. The Brits have a reputation for going crazy abroad - but not in the states - again, they just know this would not be acceptable behaviour there.

I was once on a flight back from Houston to London, and there was a small group of rednecks on the plane. The airline was a British one, so the cabin crew mostly were British, and quite a few passengers, althought the flight was not crowded (who even goes to Houston to fly back from?). The rednecks started whooping it up, but were quickly silenced, not by anything that was said, but by the non-reaction and total disregarding of them by the other people - it was quite funny - they became quite demure! One of them startd a "whoop" at one point, and it fizzled-out mid whoop.

Ok - I've rambled. Sorry if this got off-topic a bit but it's just stuff I've noticed over my lifetime.

[gerry]

1970s NYC women were probably more in-your-face than the Greeks described here---and i think most men knew they were up against a political phenomenon, and not a cultural one (altho this does make a difference). I think the piece was written to get women readers to respond by using the Greek example, but a little feminist history (in same city) would be even more effective. (probably would not be published tho, because more threatening)

[Army Of Me]

I have been meaning to ask in here for some time, and the mentioning of NY City and the issue of sexual assault/harassment has jogged my memory.

A few years ago, I was in the doc's or some waiting room or other, and I read in one of the mags while waiting, about this incident that happened in NYCity, and which the media and police colluded in a major cover-up, but one woman persisted and made them publish a story on what happened. But since then, I haven't heard anything about this incident, and considering how serious it was, I can't believe it's not mentioned by anyone. I couldn't believe what I read.

This is basically what I remember from the article - a big group of men (I think this happened in Central Park), had obviously pre-planned a mass rape. They used the principle of when cowboys surround cattle to round them up. They waited for a lot of women to be in a certain vicinity, and then just moved in and started sexually assaulting a raping en masse in broad daylight!

I have looked on the internet to find archives of this story, but can't find anything. As I said, there was something about an organised cover-up on this story too, but one of the victims got the story published in a magazine, and I'm not sure if the story actually got eventually published in a NY paper.

It's scary, as the men involved may have been involved all the way thru the police and local government - the cover-up was so organised apparently. If they covered this up, what else don't we know?

Anyone ever heard of this story?

[annared]

I've read it somewhere? it's one of those storys i wouldn't forget. But i can't remember where. Oh no! i'll probably go on a mission now!

[annared]

I've found something, but it's not the one i had in mind, which was the survivors story. This is from an anti blacks and Puerto Ricans stand point, and it's not a nice read for many reasons.

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=4631

I hope no one is offended by the way it is protrayed.

[Army Of Me]

Yes, I seem to remember that it had a racial issue associated now you mention it - the article you posted above was food for thought and some would say extreme, but I'm afraid, although the way he worded some of the content, the overall message was quite worrisome.

So, the white women are turning into the focus of hatred by the ethnics, and this means public gang sexual assault - so sick. This adds a whole new dimension to feminism, as it unfortunately has to address racism in reverse, and so-called political correctness gone to far. Shit.

ps - how the hell did you find that so fast??

[annared]

ps - how the hell did you find that so fast??

I've got a highly developed nose for misogyny HehHeh

[Army Of Me]

1970s NYC women were probably more in-your-face than the Greeks described here---and i think most men knew they were up against a political phenomenon, and not a cultural one (altho this does make a difference). I think the piece was written to get women readers to respond by using the Greek example, but a little feminist history (in same city) would be even more effective. (probably would not be published tho, because more threatening)

Yes that's right - the issues that feminism and the political movement brought into women's consciousness back then were the reason for the "attitude" and too bad it didn't seem to last. But I think the culture aspect is one for discusion too, as some cultures would be more open to accepting feminist ideals than others. Complicated issue and as you say, it's ok for the cultural reasons for a woman's feeling she can fight back to be highlighted, but don't mention the f-word as a reason!

[gerry]

I don't recall the marauding event following the Puerto Rico Day Parade being something that was planned. Worse if so. But there were about 50 or more arrests following this rampage against women in the park---i think there were a few rapes (reported) but most women had there clothes ripped off and were debased in a assortment of ways. Yes, one of the women turned out to be a public person (a very strong and determined one) who forced the police and DA Office to get much more justice for these women than they were willing to offer them. I did attend the two feminist demonstrations in the ensuing weeks---held near the spot of the attacks.

*********************

As to comparing cultures like this, NYC is not a northern euro city---far from it. It is 31% white and a great number of these whites are Jewish and Italian.

[oneangrygirl]

The Street Harassment Project was started in response to the Puerto Rican Day parade assaults, btw.

[sam]

I remember that tragedy. Living in NYC at the time, I went out to eat with my partner and cried as silently as I could over my meal before this poem spilled furiously out of me in a matter of minutes onto a napkin.

[Army Of Me]

at poem sam!

gerry, no I was not sure if it was planned - I didn't remember the whole article and that's why I was asking about details.

I don't think in this country it's ever mentioned. I only saw the article in a british mag a couple of years ago.

Sam, not even satan would treat women like this - and when women die, we'll all go to heaven, (if you even believe in this sort of stuff - god, in my opinion, being male, apparently, is irrelevant to me) cuz many of us have had our hell on earth. But if there is a heaven and hell, most men will go to hell and beyond - and haven't I stated this in so many words to many of them in this lifetime!

[gerry]

I remember that tragedy. Living in NYC at the time, I went out to eat with my partner and cried as silently as I could over my meal before this poem spilled furiously out of me in a matter of minutes onto a napkin.

Thanks for the so true poem. In the same vein, i wrote this a few weeks ago---not a poem, really but more like a laundry list of why there is no "sexism" anymore, called "Faceless" http://www.blogger.com/posts.g?blogID=29398429[/url] the last part of it is less off topic or off thread. (must be doing something wrong with my urls now--was able to do this earlier)