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vg1 wrote:Let's call the glamour model career as what it is- the easy and lazy way out.
It's neither. Women who get into porn or glamour careers are not "lazy". Just as women who choose to have children are not "lazy".
It seems to me that some are defining women as 'lazy' or stupid for not choosing the 'right' career, but as defined by who? I don't like defining people by their career.
Most people I know don't have careers, they have jobs. I'm against work, myself. I don't agree with the capitalist mentality that has people working 40+ hour weeks, in order to create stupidly large surplus of product and of profit. I think the "work ethic" is pants.
soopermouse wrote:it seems to me that you have a pretty low opinion of the young women of the 00's. Because you seem to be treating them as children who do not have the ability to make their own choices, and as such they are not responsible for their actions, and I resent that. We are all responsible for our actions.
Even in a patriarchal society, we still have some choices, and by making it appear that the sexualizing as career choice is ( almost) compulsory, you are denying recognition for the rest of the young women, namely those that do not become models or sex workers, which funny enough happen to be the majority. Do you know why? BEcause the majority of the women actually do not fit into the porn object standard of looks.
I am sorry, but I am not buying this "treat women like powerless infants" crap. Women are full human beings, they make choices, they can screw up and we cannot blame the patriarchy for all of them. If you deny women the responsibility for their actions and try to coddle them in the " she was forced to do so by the Patriarchy" blanket, you are dehumanizing them and treating them like inferiors that are incapable of making their own choices, just like te Patriarchy has done for a long time.
Strange as it might seem, the young women of today still manage to have careers, to study and to have lives that are NOT those of glamour models.
Let's stop with making excuses. Last time that happened, we ended up with the pornification of society because some feminists decided to defend everything all women did as their choice, and not to be criticized. You are falling into the same pit..
I've noticed that women in most 'careers' are seen as lazy. 'Lower class' women are always seen as lazy, even more so if they are mothers, more again if they are single mothers. Whether on benefits or working two full time jobs and raising a family on top (which is not an uncommon scenario, if you have doubts), if she hasnt achieved some mythical "right" career it is because she is lazy or stupid or both.
Yet women who earn packets in demanding careers are also seen as lazy. They are often assumed to have "slept their way" to the top, or to have got there through "daddys connections".
SaltyC wrote:What does "holding the woman accountable" entail, in practical terms? How would you do that?
For those of us who have gotten ourselves into bad situations, how did we get out?
For me, it was because someone outside of my situation never stopped communicating, no matter what. For this reason, I would not alienate women I have known who were involved in prostitution or stripping, I still see them as humans worthy of respect. They know my position, that what they are doing is wrong, but also that I don't think they are less than me because of it. They still are wonderful human beings with worthwile contributions to make, just this one aspect, this one thing they do is wrong but it does not define them.
It is important that we are united in respecting the humanity of women who are in abusive relationships, have eating disorders, are in prostitution, be friends with them, don't alienate them. We must prove the critics of radical feminism wrong when they say that we want to put women down. We don't want to put them down because the reason they are in that bad situation is that they have low self-esteem. You need a lot of self-worth to cultivate the guts to escape. Their pimps and husbands and johns do quite a job putting them down, more than anybody, more than all our criticisms ever could,
BUT for some reason, our criticisms are what they will get defensive about. Oh yeah, stockholm syndrome. Still, we should let them know we are waiting to help them when they are ready to get the hell out.
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