Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

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Postby elfeminista » Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:20 pm

Yes Andrew we agree on this.

I was thinking again today about how much men love to work in teams within the framework of patriarchal institutions. I mean for example, The Army , The Church, charismatic political movements,(Fascism, Soviet communism) religion, sports..

But when it comes to this movement, there is no such impetus. I don't think it is hyperbole to say that this movement, (beyond facilitating the essential emancipation of class Woman from patriarchy) stands to be the greatest cultural political and sociological change humanity has ever known. So why do even the few males that profess to support it and be allies to it, not do as we do within patriarchal groups which require determination, zeal, planning and comradeship? is it because we are too timid, not knowing our place within the movement?

No. I don't think so. because many of us have read many feminist books have had interaction with feminist women and as part of the oppressor class, we are better situated to help our sisters grab the keys to the jailhouse, and we can do this for two reasons, i) we have more agency and 2) as those who were raised to be wardens, we may know as well, or even better than Women, where those keys are.

We know what is needed but we don't do it. I believe that (I am repeating myself I know), In communicating with one another and then acting in unison, as profeminist males we can use our agency as males to great use. This of course with the guidance of Women within the movement. I hate to say this, but either I am proposing this too early in the history of radical feminism, or simply, the males in the movement do not view their involvement with the commitment required to be a *real* ally. I think that it is the latter. And I also think that maybe on a subconscious level, males are really *not* looking at this as what it what it can be and what Women who lead the radical feminist movement insist that it be:
(Again I apologize for the repetition),

"“Feminism is a movement for the liberation of women which, because women’s oppression is deeply embedded in everything must necessarily, then be a movement for the transformation of the whole society "~Charlotte Bunch

These are not idle words, it is a purposeful statement.And a most important one.

That males who profess to be pro-feminists do not see
that the lack of purposeful acting on their/our part is antifeminist is very intriguing .
"I was analyzing a phenomenon I am seeing on the internet-- a proliferation of blogs in which the blogger identifies as a radical feminist, but does not seem to embrace the distinctives of radical feminism as we understand the term in the United States.And you know, I think it's okay if they do that, but I also think it's important to say what I said because otherwise (1) herstoric radical feminism gets erased; (2) people new to feminism never hear what herstoric radical feminism really was or is."~ Heart
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby MaggieH » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:34 pm

Hey, this thread got 12,891 hits. For a topic that generally doesn't interest people, yo? :drunken:

to quote Charlotte Bunch-

"Feminism is a movement for the liberation of women which, because women’s oppression is deeply embedded in everything must necessarily, then be a movement for the transformation of the whole society."

If only this kind of transformation could happen soon... :crybaby:
"The assumption that "most women are innately heterosexual'' stands as a theoretical and political stumbling block for many women. It remains a tenable assumption, partly because lesbian existence has been written out of history or catalogued under disease;. . . partly because to acknowledge that for women heterosexuality may not be a "preference" at all but something that has had to be imposed, managed, organized, propagandized and maintained by force is an immense step to take if you consider yourself freely and "innately" heterosexual. Yet the failure to examine heterosexuality as an institution is like failing to admit that the economic system called capitalism or the caste system of racism is maintained by a variety of forces, including both physical violence and false consciousness. . ."
-- Adrienne Rich, in Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence: http://www.terry.uga.edu/~dawndba/4500compulsoryhet.htm

“The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men.” ~ Alice Walker
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby kellum » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:08 pm

Im so utterly exhausted with the way things are. I use my whole weekends lying on my bed with my laptop networking. I email. I blog. I call. Nothing. I have attended a few feminist meetings at Vanderbilt that help make me feel like Im not alone. I pretend that Im excited about being alone the rest of my life as a 'punishment' for my convictions and to prove my independence. But if humans were meant to be alone in our evolution, why the hell would we be fighting so hard fro love? I sometimes wish I could be a bitch and use men for money and be greedy so that I can reap revenge and make money and at least fill my void with material things and plastic surgery.... But I cant. I still feel inadequate sometimes by things a guy says to me. I still let men have power over me by making me feel ugly, fat, replaceable. I think maybe things would be easier if I could just buy into the bullshit the world is selling me. Its sad knowing that because Im a feminist, I hold a great chance of being alone forever. Yeah, wouldnt being alone be very independent of me..... all well and good. I mean, Im ok with being alone. Ive been alone my whole life. But it doesnt mean I dont long for more. Im independent, but I sure wish there were more feminist men out there so maybe one would love me and I would love him and we could snuggle when we werent debating, being active, ranting........ Its just so frustrating.
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby MaggieH » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:29 pm

Have you considered lesbian-feminist separatism, Kellum?

I opened my mind to it last year:

http://www.queerbychoice.com/lesfemlinks.html

I love those writings. I have concluded that separatism is probably the best policy within this world as it stands today, as the vast majority of men have been way too conditioned to conform to (and to benefit from) patriarchy:

http://www.terry.uga.edu/~dawndba/4500orchids.htm

There are a few pro-feminist men, but unfortunately they are way too rare...

Lesbian feminism is a strong politics. It defines a lesbian primarily as "a woman-identified woman" and seeks women's liberation from male oppression.

It is the primacy of women relating to women, of women creating a new consciousness of and with each other, which is at the heart of women's liberation, and the basis for the cultural revolution. Together we must find, reinforce, and validate our authentic selves. As we do this, we confirm in each other that struggling, incipient sense of pride and strength, the divisive barriers begin to melt, we feel this growing solidarity with our sisters. We see ourselves as prime, find our centers inside of ourselves. We find receding the sense of alienation, of being cut off, of being behind a locked window, of being unable to get out what we know is inside. We feel a real-ness, feel at last we are coinciding with ourselves. With that real self, with that consciousness, we begin a revolution to end the imposition of all coercive identifications, and to achieve maximum autonomy in human expression.

-- Radicalesbians.
"The assumption that "most women are innately heterosexual'' stands as a theoretical and political stumbling block for many women. It remains a tenable assumption, partly because lesbian existence has been written out of history or catalogued under disease;. . . partly because to acknowledge that for women heterosexuality may not be a "preference" at all but something that has had to be imposed, managed, organized, propagandized and maintained by force is an immense step to take if you consider yourself freely and "innately" heterosexual. Yet the failure to examine heterosexuality as an institution is like failing to admit that the economic system called capitalism or the caste system of racism is maintained by a variety of forces, including both physical violence and false consciousness. . ."
-- Adrienne Rich, in Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence: http://www.terry.uga.edu/~dawndba/4500compulsoryhet.htm

“The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men.” ~ Alice Walker
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby kellum » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:58 pm

if youre asking me if i have ever thought of just being a lesbian, yes and no. i mean, im not against the idea at all. but also, i havent truly had a crush on a girl since high school. i feel like im pretty straight. open to the idea, but also being almost 30 and just kinda turning gay would be a lot of trouble. i wouldnt even know what to do... lol.... i also wouldnt think it would be right to just be gay cuz i cant get a feminist man...... i think if i had more gay women surrounding me, making me feel more comfortable i might be able to try it out (for a lack of a better way to put it). but at this point, i just wouldnt even know where to start and how to just change teams.... if it were to just happen, thats a different story...

thanks... i will definitely check out those links
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby oneangrygirl » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:53 pm

if i found someone, you can.
have you considered moving?
I guess some slavery feels like freedom.
-Wembley Fraggle
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby MaggieH » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:24 am

Yeah, I totally understand, Kellum. Though this is exactly what I did, not long ago:

kellum wrote:being almost 30 and just kinda turning gay would be a lot of trouble. i wouldnt even know what to do...

(I'm 28) It's actually less trouble for me: I don't have to put up with a man who still keeps wanting to benefit from the masculine gender role anymore... I had some lesbian tendencies before. It is often argued by lesbian-feminists that most women can simply choose to become lesbian (the very concept of sexual orientation being a social construct, just like gender roles, apparently). Some feminists argue that their separatism or lesbianism is a result of their feminism... As for not knowing what to do, well, I never get anywhere near the standard popular 'lesbian' scene because patriarchy has invaded there too (the "butch-femme" dichotomy being the exact replica of "masculine-feminine" gender roles). The patriarchy has made a completely distorted image of lesbianism: like it's all about sex, while it can be about being a woman-identified-woman (the links to the writings I posted earlier actually give a totally different perspective on what lesbianism is). At the moment, I simply look for friendship and companionship with women I get along with. I go out a lot to feminist events. Activism is the primary goal, even in separatist feminism, but (who knows?) someday I might find someone I really get along with. I have concluded that there is probably a lot more chance to find a female partner interested in feminism than a male one. Anyway, my separatism is also about not giving anymore of my energy to men who do not want to change and who benefit from privilege: I'd rather give more of my energy to women...

Anyway, Kellum, there are still some heterosexual feminists who managed to find someone interesting, so who knows? I really hope things get better for you... The life of a feminist can be quite lonely... but it's always good to not buy into their male-supremacist beliefs, as a culture of misogyny will always make women feel bad inside, even when they conform to it...
"The assumption that "most women are innately heterosexual'' stands as a theoretical and political stumbling block for many women. It remains a tenable assumption, partly because lesbian existence has been written out of history or catalogued under disease;. . . partly because to acknowledge that for women heterosexuality may not be a "preference" at all but something that has had to be imposed, managed, organized, propagandized and maintained by force is an immense step to take if you consider yourself freely and "innately" heterosexual. Yet the failure to examine heterosexuality as an institution is like failing to admit that the economic system called capitalism or the caste system of racism is maintained by a variety of forces, including both physical violence and false consciousness. . ."
-- Adrienne Rich, in Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence: http://www.terry.uga.edu/~dawndba/4500compulsoryhet.htm

“The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men.” ~ Alice Walker
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby kellum » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:31 pm

well, i dunno. i guess what ever happens, happens.... i have been thinking though. i want to adopt in several years, so i may have to have a sort of an arranged marriage. so i guess i should stay single for now and get my life in order..... oh, and feminist events? shit.... not where i am.....
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby Valerie » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:56 pm

Kellum- Whatever you do, please for the love of god don't settle. I really really only enjoy sex with men, I really really wanted to have sex, and I totally tried to make some compromises in order to get it. Wasn't remotely worth it.
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Re: Why aren't males interested in feminism? (category: rant)

Postby kellum » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:59 pm

wow, thanks so much for caring. that means a lot. i cant settle. its just not in me. id rather be alone than settle. im pretty good at turning my libido off. just flipping the switch...... and on those days where that fails...... i have toys.... and if im drunk and with men and start thinking one little randez-vous wouldnt hurt, i refrain..... IT JUST FUCKING SUCKS, thats all... but it is what it is......
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